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TheAntiSteve
(@theantisteve)
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Joined: 5 months ago
Posts: 11
20/03/2019 12:51 am  

I'm personally a huge fan of the new mob, but there are a few weird things I've noticed. I'm not sure what's fixable, what's not, and what may even be intentional.

First off: they're super obvious. Since they're entities even when still, the lighting engine treats them differently than surrounding blocks (picture attached). May just be an issue for those of us running shaders but for me, a mimic in a darker area is visibly bluer than the surrounding blocks. Also, they're not always perfectly centered, so if they're in a corner there's a visible border between them and the blocks they're touching. To make matters worse, they become hostile when hit, not touched, so if you or another mob bumps into one by mistake it'll slide.

Second: they're freaking everywhere, my god. I was mining out a ravine and followed a cave branch for a few minutes, when I came back to the ravine floor after 5-10 there were like nine of them, if not more. They're really easy to fight, or at least they are with a full diamond kit, but if they're supposed to be a rarity that's... not what's happening.

Also, I'm not sure whether or not this is intentional, but even though ore block mimics only dropped the ore/resource they were disguised as part of the time, stone variants drop every time.

They're a super cool addition to the server, none of this is intended as a complaint, I'm just curious if any of this is going to be ironed out to make them as insidious as the concept suggests.

This topic was modified 5 months ago by cerberus402

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cerberus402
(@cerberus402)
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Joined: 5 months ago
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21/03/2019 12:14 am  

Since they're entities even when still, the lighting engine treats them differently than surrounding blocks 

Yeah, nothing I can do about this.. 

Also, they're not always perfectly centered, so if they're in a corner there's a visible border between them and the blocks they're touching.

I think this kind of adds to the illusion and the point though. They're mimics, they aren't supposed to be 'invisible'. They're supposed to be easy to spot for veteran players.

To make matters worse, they become hostile when hit, not touched, so if you or another mob bumps into one by mistake it'll slide.

This is intentional though, I intentionally programmed them as such... Should a mimic automatically attack as a zombie? No, that further defeats the point. A mimic waits in 'hiding' for an unsuspecting player, obviously you are not so unsuspecting. If you are ever unsure of a block (in your case I suppose never... but for those of us not using shaders) you can always 'test' the block by trying to push it. I saw a lot of people just using a sword to hit blocks they were unsure of. Nothing wrong with using the weakness of a monster to determine if it is a threat or not, imo. Every monster has a weakness, mimics can be pushed.

Second: they're freaking everywhere, my god. I was mining out a ravine and followed a cave branch for a few minutes, when I came back to the ravine floor after 5-10 there were like nine of them, if not more. They're really easy to fight, or at least they are with a full diamond kit, but if they're supposed to be a rarity that's... not what's happening.

Hmmmm you combine multiple points into one 😛 First, as of current the spawn chance: .005. with 1 being 100%.. this mean mimics have a .5% chance to spawn. I used to have it set to .1% (as was the spawn with giants, but they're a different spawn type). With mimics I am letting MythicMobs ADD spawns instead of REPLACE spawns. This means that the spawn of a mimic is not dependent on whether or not Minecraft deems a spawn. So mimics can spawn in any light level (unless I restrict it). 

Your second point in this quote: "Theyre easy to fight".... Well, that depends on the mimic. If youre good at fighting monsters in Minecraft, you will do fine against mimics that is true. I would like to say that mimics are the FIRST line of new monsters to come to the server, I did not want to make them overly hard or difficult. To return to my point, it depends on the mimic how hard it is. Every 'level' up from the base mimic (stone, granite etc) has the damage AND experience increased. 

For your THIRD point in 2 sentences ;P  "if theyre supposed to be a rarity that's... not whats happening."... The way I see it, there's different levels of rarity to mobs. Certainly base Minecraft mobs are of the 'common' rarity. Mimics however, I have been keeping a close eye on. Every time I check the server for how many mimics there are I get 2-10 (most times)... For upwards of 7-15 people.. I would classify mimics as 'uncommon'. They only spawn underground. The higher value mimics (diamond and emerald and gold) only spawn from levels 0-20.. If you think they should be lower spawn rates by all means I can lower them. The intention however, was not for mimics to be rare, powerful, or rich monsters.. but to sort of add to the base line of minecraft. (The rare and powerful monsters come later...). Imagine being a new player, seeing diamond for the first time, and it happens to be a mimic. Should the mimic kill the newbie player? Possible, that is certainly within the scope of Eldin. Should there be a chance for the player to keenly observe something out of place? Or perhaps have a chance to rectify their mistake of attacking the mimic? I believe so.

Also, I'm not sure whether or not this is intentional, but even though ore block mimics only dropped the ore/resource they were disguised as part of the time, stone variants drop every time.

It's intentional Steve... Why not? It's stone bruh. Why would it only drop 50% of the time when its value is so low? Killing a 'low level' mimic should more often then not result in the block type of that mimic, right? Should the drop chance not be based upon value of material as I have it? To break it down:

Stone (andesite, granite, diorite): 100%
Iron: 75%
Gold: 60%
Diamond: 50%
Emerald: 50%

It's stone it isn't like it's valuable, why not 100% drop chance? Everything about mimics I purposefully programmed. I want people to be excited when they spot a mimic, and should be rewarded for their discerning eye (or in your case discerning shader). Many a new player / people without strong computers will still question the blocks they see. Yes, they can spawn on not centers, but that's what MAKES them what they are. It's a mimic... its not supposed to be undetectable. Creepers have no melee attack, they can only explode. Zombies have no range, they have to slowly move towards you. Skeletons.. well they're broken.. but they have no melee attack and only range with relatively low health. Every monster has strengths and weaknesses. The mimic has a chance to spawn in a perfect position (I've seen them in the wall amongst their OWN ore types... amazing) 

They're a super cool addition to the server, none of this is intended as a complaint, I'm just curious if any of this is going to be ironed out to make them as insidious as the concept suggests.

As I stressed earlier in the post, mimics are not the insidious monsters that are coming to the server. Mimics were the first wave 'easy to spot for veterans / confusing or deadly for new players'. Lemme post a picture of an upcoming new monster to gauge your reaction:

__Reaper

This post was modified 5 months ago 4 times by cerberus402

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TheAntiSteve
(@theantisteve)
Active Member
Joined: 5 months ago
Posts: 11
21/03/2019 3:03 am  

Since they're entities even when still, the lighting engine treats them differently than surrounding blocks 

Yeah, nothing I can do about this..

I had a feeling that was the case. The only fix I can think of would be to have them work like silverfish where they're a special block that spawns the entity when broken/touched, but I get the feeling that's beyond the scope of what the plugin can do.

This is intentional though, I intentionally programmed them as such... Every monster has a weakness, mimics can be pushed.

Ah, okay! Makes sense. I'm still going to laugh every time I see diamond blocks floating downstream though.

Should a mimic automatically attack as a zombie? No, that further defeats the point.

I get that, it's just about levels of interaction to me. Bumping into or trying to stand on a block is a grey area between hitting it and zero interaction (what most mobs require before attacking). In my head, standing on a mimic would make it attack, but if pushing is an intentional mechanic I can see why you'd leave that out.

Hmmmm you combine multiple points into one

This isn't really related to mimics but I'm an English/rhetoric major so I'm triggered af by this: no I did not, sir! The point of both sentences was that in my experience mimics are a common spawn. I'll admit the thing about them being easy to fight is a bit of an aside but the start and end are the same thing restated in two different ways.

Every time I check the server for how many mimics there are I get 2-10 (most times)... For upwards of 7-15 people.. I would classify mimics as 'uncommon'.

Bear in mind usually there are only one or two people actively mining at a time, which is when mimics are most likely to spawn... Over the past two days there have been multiple occasions where I've found four, five, on one occasion like eight mimics in a 30 block radius. I attached a screenshot of three separated by about four blocks, there were another two stone variants on either side of the frame that I couldn't fit in. So the average number of mimics per player is low, but that could be because people on the surface are seeing none and people mining are seeing loads.

It's intentional Steve... Why not? It's stone bruh.

Got it, was just curious. I'll be honest, I think the reason I mentioned that was because I got annoyed that every time I killed a stone variant mimic, I got another useless block in my inventory, but most of the time when I killed an ore variant mimic I got nothing. That's a pretty stupid complaint on my part because there are a lot of other things that put useless stuff in your inv (like for example, just mining). Given current spawn rates having ore variants drop loot every time would definitely be OP. I see more diamond/emerald mimics than actual emerald or diamond blocks, and a lazy player could just sit afk next to a dark ravine for ten minutes and then go kill all the ore blocks that spawned in there. That'd be silly.

Lemme post a picture of an upcoming new monster to gauge your reaction

...I'm just gonna go delete my game now, that is terrifying and I don't even know what it does yet.

 

I posted this whole initial rant when I was pretty tired, so it got a little rambly. The gist of it was supposed to just be that I really like mimics as an addition but am/was curious about whether certain quirks were known to you, and what your thought process behind the specifics of their behavior was (because based on the basic description we first got, what I saw was different from what I expected). I like the idea of them being extremely uncommon and extremely difficult to spot, but that is completely subjective and the way they are right now makes sense too.


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cerberus402
(@cerberus402)
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Joined: 5 months ago
Posts: 118
21/03/2019 1:42 pm  

Yeah, all good points. I think I will lower the spawn rate back down to .01%


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Zephyna
(@zephyna)
Member Moderator
Joined: 6 months ago
Posts: 10
21/03/2019 10:25 pm  

mimics are pretty amazing! i love it 😀


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damaster_k
(@damaster_k)
New Member
Joined: 5 months ago
Posts: 4
30/03/2019 10:12 am  

Posted by: cerberus402

Posted by: TheAntiSteve

Second: they're freaking everywhere, my god. I was mining out a ravine and followed a cave branch for a few minutes, when I came back to the ravine floor after 5-10 there were like nine of them, if not more. They're really easy to fight, or at least they are with a full diamond kit, but if they're supposed to be a rarity that's... not what's happening.

Hmmmm you combine multiple points into one 😛 First, as of current the spawn chance: .005. with 1 being 100%.. this mean mimics have a .05% chance to spawn. I used to have it set to .01% (as was the spawn with giants, but they're a different spawn type). With mimics I am letting MythicMobs ADD spawns instead of REPLACE spawns. This means that the spawn of a mimic is not dependent on whether or not Minecraft deems a spawn. So mimics can spawn in any light level (unless I restrict it). 

Maybe you made a typo here, but a setting of .005 would actually be a 0.5% and not 0.05%?

This post was modified 5 months ago by damaster_k

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cerberus402
(@cerberus402)
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Joined: 5 months ago
Posts: 118
06/04/2019 11:47 pm  
Posted by: damaster_k
Maybe you made a typo here, but a setting of .005 would actually be a 0.5% and not 0.05%?

yep 🙂


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